I posted some time ago on the difference between playing and performing music, with Guitar Hero being an example of how you perform the role of being a guitar player rather than actually playing guitar. (Slash professes to not being that good at Guitar Hero).
In Rock Band things are a little different: Drumming is actual drumming (your physical actions map to being an actual drummer), singing is actual singing … but the guitar is still about performing the role of a guitar player.
Why is that?
It seems to boil down to the different parts to play – almost everybody can sing, if badly.
It is very simple to be a bad rock drummer (bass drum, snare drum, bass drum, snare…) that still fills the part of a drummer, if badly.
By comparison, guitars have pretty high barriers to entry – if the song has a fast riff, you can’t get away with only playing every other chord. And then even playing guitar chords takes a while to learn (and makes your fingers hurt).
It’s the instrument. (Perhaps that was obvious, I just needed to write it down.)
Good point, and partly true IMO :-)
Guitar Hero (which I have played as opposed to Rock Band) reduces guitar play to base general skills. Practicing your Guitar Hero skills will bring you no closer to playing an F# chord on a regular guitar. But you will have to learn:
– The particular type of hand-eye coordination necessary to play from note sheets (no eyes on the instrument)
– Sensitivity to the relative placement of your fingers (always knowing the string/button on which each finger rests, difficult for beginners)
– How to follow rhythm
So Guitar Hero play corresponds to generalized guitar play (not _just_ performing the guitar god role), while eschewing the specifics of style and the entire notation system. The likely explanation for this design choice, as you rightly note, is the high barrier to entry of the instrument. Violin Hero might have to be even more generalized.
Switching genres: I remember the great delight I got from the ‘backpacker’ series of computer-based trivia games. The selling point? Difficult questions!
So, when are we going to see a ‘difficult’ rock game that actually requires some skill on guitar and keyboard.
(Using a piano/organ keyboard as an input device for a game is a no-brainer, why haven’t we seen it yet? Come to think of it, what about controlling a platform game with an organ-style keyboard – play F# to go left, C9b5 to jump etc. The chords could get more difficult as the level increased. It could be an adaptor for MIDI devices with a game console controller plug on the other end…)
Perhaps it’s more fun to actually form a real rock band, where the rewards are not mediated through a piece of software.
That is an interesting thought, putting a keyboard in the game.
I personally think it would never make it. I would love the to play an actual difficult rock game, but I think part of the reason Guitar Hero made it so big is because anyone can learn to play it and it is not that difficult.
Learn how to use Distortion Pedals.
I kinda feel like you guys are missing the point of what these games are about. They are about accesibility, it’s about being what all rhythm action games are about- more about merely matching the scrolling notes to your button presses than actually playing instruments. These games are difficult (ever tried the later songs on expert in any of these games?) but I think you mean difficult as in real instruments. That you’d need to be able to actually play guitar in real life in order to play the game- when you think about it, a game like that is the direct opposite of what these games are about.
Most of you guys aren’t getting what they are about, maybe because you guys actually play instruments and are approaching it from a musician’s perspective- but really, all people want is to get together and match the buttons, which is fun in and of itself, regardless of whether or not the are “playing” the music.
Conbus, I agree with you certainly – it is more like a philosophical question, why does the guitar part have to be so different from actual guitar-playing?
Perhaps it is that of the three, guitar playing is simply more formal to begin with– so it’s more recognizable or noticeable what information you’re missing in the simplified version.
Vocals and guitar playing aren’t easier, per se, but they rely a lot on aesthetics– complex, and unformalizable because they’re embedded in an interpretive community. What makes one vocalist better than another? Well, you can debate it, but there’s no answer. You just think one is, and that’s it.
Since its hard to articulate what’s missing, I think it just *seems* like anyone can do these bits (albeit badly). But it is very different from actual singing and drum playing– and alters/distills just as much as the guitar portion.
Plus, have you ever tried to sing the songs you don’t know by using just the onscreen notes? Maybe it’s just me, but it seems next to impossible! (at least if your goal is to sing anything close to the original song)
With the singing, the strange thing is that many people can sing from notes, if only they would show them instead of the colored rectangles they use now. Why not have a secret switch allowing notes to be displayed?
Ah, yes this is true. I believe the current rectangles are more familiar with players of karaoke games.
I’m trained on bouncy ball, myself.
Jesper, you wrote this after we played Rock Band together in New York, right? You were definitely good at singing (better than Eric!) but you should have tried the drums too — maybe you have since. They’re a whole magnitude of difficulty up from the drums, probably in part due to the fact that they map actual drumming much more closely. Even a basic rock beat is pretty much impossible for a non-drummer to sit down and play, I discovered. I’m writing something soon on the various techniques that are exposed through increasing difficulties of Rock Band drumming, maybe I’ll send you the link.
I also suspect that the “realistic” nature of the drums are linked to Harmonix’ decision to make the graphical style and narrative of the game more “realistic” compared to Guitar Hero, which has gone off in the opposite direction, becoming more and more surreal and fantasy-like. But I’m not sure which direction the causality runs there.
Oops, I should have said the drums are “a whole magnitude of difficulty up from the guitar.”
Naomi – yes, I was inspired after the session in NY.
I hope to log some hours on Rock Band here in Boston, but I always found actual drumming to be surprisingly difficult, so perhaps that’s just drums for you?
I wrote a piece on Guitar Hero’s simulational fidelity in respect to actual guitar playing, in which I argue that it is not as alien to the act as we might be inclined to believe. It should appear in the next issue of the Loading… Canadian journal of game studies, if it gets through the editing process. I’ll post back here with a link when it’s ready.
Also, on the topic of Rock Band, I don’t believe the microphone is more closely simulating singing than the guitar controller is for guitar (though the guitar controller certainly is worse at simulating playing the bass). It’s very easy to get through a song just mumbling into the microphone, which doesn’t teach you a thing about singing. And as regards drums, there isn’t enough footwork involved, at least at medium difficulty. I doubt the game makes a radical shift of playing at higher difficulty levels.
I think the point of these games (and what they successfully acheive) is to introduce more people to the (somewhat dying) genre of Classic Rock.
I always thought drumming was way cool. I bought Rockband and was introduced to a whole new style of Music which is fun. It has taught me very quickly about basic beats and coordination. I am playing at hard after two weeks (not very well though) and now I am coming up against real problem with hand/foot coordination and playing offbeats and stuff. So I will be taking lessons. And my girlfriend thinks its f`ed up that I am taking coaching for a game. go figure.
-M
Personally i would rather play guitar on Guitar Hero3 then in rockband because in rockband the guitar itself isnt that great as in GH3
Now personally I myself am a real drummer in a real band(not exactly famous) and i do a little guitar every now and then, I can’t complete a song but I can hold a chord or two. But I think that the drum beats in rock Band are only “semi” realistic compared to the real thing. I mean I play drums,bass and guitar all on expert I think because I have real experience on the cooresponding instruments. I don’t even bother with singing. but I don’t believe guitaring in this game has anything real life to do with any of it. The singing processer thing (hehe) just needs to be upgraded and more strict with the sounds of the words and not the tone. and the drumming I will explain. When you play on expert and your going to play 3 different crash cymbals on a controller with only 4 pads it conflicts itself. They just need to add a few more pads and some on cymabl stands so if you really want to play real drums you would have alittle more experience. Also if you press down on a real bass pedal onto a real bass drum the feeling has more resistance than Rock Band. Theres 2 springs bringing the pedal back, not one pushing against the force of your foot. Or mabye they should add a bass drum pad like they do in an electric drum set. I think they just need to revamp the whole idea. Almost like going back to formula.
well the drums isn’t that hard to pick up (At least for me it wasn’t)
I also play drums in real life. I have to disagree with you Guyz – On the harder difficulties, it is actually quite similar.
You need to ignore the non-realistic feel of the bass drum. If someone really wants the more realistic feel, they can get an electronic drum kit and get this interface (found at http://rockbandkickbox.com/store/index.php?act=viewProd&productId=2) so that they can get realistic drum pedal action.
All you have to do in order to turn your rock band drumming into real drumming (concerning the cymbals) is keep in mind what you’re hitting with each pad specific to each song. For example, some songs use the blue pad for hitting the bell of the ride cymbal and sometimes the red pad for a type of crash. Just be aware of what you’re hitting and it will come to you. The game allows aspiring drummers to see how much certain patterns are repeated in a lot of different songs (You know, the good ole money beat – Bass, hat, snare, hat, bass, hat, snare, hat, etc…)
The game has certainly helped me broaden my horizons with my own drumming because I take the time to see how the notes break down into the proper sheet music to make complete sense of what’s going on.